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| Mister James |
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Mister James
I want to believe!
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zaknafien
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Visitor Q
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 Posted: 15:30 - 17 Mar 2006  Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: |
| Quote: |
And they know only a small percentage of spoiled tossers want fox hunting to continue, yet those spoiled tossers have the vote. So what happens is they get an unenforceable law that took a year fannying around int parliament to pass.
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I tend to look at it from the other way round, that banning hunting was always going to be unworkable (and undesirable for the vast majority of people for whom it is a non-issue) and that the anti-hunting lobbies wasted vast amounts of public time and money to pass an intolerant nannying law. |
Whilst i agree with that, the ONLY part of the Labour manifesto they have followed through on was the hunting. If they had a blanket, no one to be seen poncing around the forests in red romper suits. All would be good.
Now its down to a copper to prove the fox they are chasing was there from the start. Which means absolutely nothing. Its all froth and bubble. That doesnt bother me, and frankly i have no particular love of fluffy animals (i actually reckon cock fighting etc would be a good laugh), what bothers me is there are enough dickless wankers floating about giving a shit about foxes, one way or another (killing or cuddling) that it got batted round parliament for several years, wasting shitloads of time. And what we get out the other end is useless to either party.
Its fence sitting at its best.
Besides which Labour is no longer labour. We have torys and labour tories. Labour are pathetic and the sooner the fucking populace work that out the better.
I lost all faith in humanity when both bush and b-liar got back in 
And you're right, no govt. on paper works better then democracy. But take iraq, they didnt have a democracy. And they hated their regime so much they are still fighting to keep out western democracy after being 'freed'.
I say bring brack promethiesm, Hitler may have been a mad fucker, but a lot of his ideas where quite ahead of there time.
The problems i see with our current govt are two-fold.
1- They are doing politics backwards. Politics is about selling an idea to people and making them believe it. Whereas now its become 'what do wayne and waynetta want so we can get this seat again next election'. Which is retarded.
2- They suffer from tesco syndrome.
Now this is something i made up, but it explains Benefits, PC etc perfectly.
Back int day, Tesco was just an average supermarket. You went there, you qued at the till, youd get your shit, you'd go home. Everyone is happy.
Sainsbury start being abit competitive. Tesco combats this by PROMISING to only have one person in front of you at the till, and promising to get your bags packed, promising to give you a voucher if they dont have stock for BOGOF's.
Does this make the costumer happy? At the beginning perhaps. The first time their bags get packed, or the ques are low they are happy.
Then they come back, and although they used to be perfectly happy packing their bags themselves, they now expect them to be packed. Tesco cannot repeal that expectation. Same as ques, they dont expect to que.
IF there are ques, or there are no bag packers, they complain.
Transfer that to benefits, NHS, roads.
Also Mrs Miggins at number 42 tends to be the loudl est voice, and also the most highly moral of virtue and blinkered of experience.
To that end she will happily bitch at local mp's everyday about 'issues'.
Normal people like you and i, see something, shake our head and carry on.
Therefore the only people they get any feedback off are mentalists.
Its like phone polls, 'should they ban smoking'.
Thats never going to give a fair result, because only motivated (ie directly affected) people are going to phone up and whinge about their human rights (one way or another) being infringed.
Normal people recognise that its a harmful habit, and its unfair to non smokers, but as a smoker its their right to pop outside and for the non smokers to avoid that area. Its obvious.
Oh and i wasnt picking on the NHS, as its main problem lies in both the stupidly long education process to become a nurse/doctor, the ease with which you can get fired and the general litigious society which the govt cant help.
However i find it extremely galling that B-liar and his crew can sit there and tell me the NHS cant afford proper cleaning of its hospitals, it cant afford more beds, it cant afford more staff etc. When its just spent god knows how much on an unlawful war, an olympic 'boost' to our economy that we dont need (and hasnt got a snowball in hells chance of being finished in time) and will run immensely over budget. Not to mention all this fannying around with immigrants etc. I dont hate all immigrants, i just think if they persist in coming here to thrive off a benefit state which cannot even support itself, they should expect to have to run past machine gun nests, razor wire and guard dogs.
Not fucking customs officials wearing tweed jackets at dover.
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule... |
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
Citizen Smith
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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| Posted: 16:36 - 17 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Please list the other things i've apparntly fabricated |
The list of innaccuracies stemming from you making up facts or making assumptions (this is how bored I am at work today  )
1. | Quote: | a well to do SAS man sells his story to the media |
| Quote: | • Mr Griffin did not ask for or receive any payment for this interview. |
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas112.xml
Being 'well to do' is another assumption.
2. | Quote: |
Someone who has gone through a selection process does not know the realities of war Craig, as Mr Ben found out. |
| Quote: | He had already served in Northern Ireland, Macedonia and Afghanistan as a member of the Parachute Regiment, and his sharp mind, natural fitness and ability to cope with the stress of military operations had singled him out as ideal special forces material. |
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas112.xml
3. | Quote: | I am beginning to think your finding this hard to believe that scum like this SAS guy |
Now he's scum?
4. | Quote: | I thought the bombers turned out not to be Muslim |
| Quote: | Sir Iqbal Sacranie, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said it had received news of the suspects with "anguish, shock and horror".
He said: "It appears our youth have been involved in last week's horrific bombings against innocent people. |
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676577.stm
Assumptions again....
5. | Quote: | I just thought that when you are going through the training/selection process, you don’t know what it’s like to be in real war. Especially what it’s like fighting along side our allies. |
See number 2
6 | Quote: | He’s only seen a small amount of what they are capable of, enough to make him quit it seems. |
Unsubstanciated and an assumption
7. | Quote: | I’m not making shi* up |
See above
8. | Quote: | At first it was simply a question asking Craig how soldier Ben is going to affect this war, the question is avoided. |
| Quote: | Dig a bit deeper and you would see that the SAS man quitting is already having legal repecussions on the military system as it is being used in court to support other soldiers who refuse to fight an illegal war. This could set a prescedent which would have a knock on effect a long way of in the future. Yes that is speculation on my behalf but its better than your desperate, apathy ridden ramblings about how helpless we all are. |
That looks like an answer to me.......Sooooo another accusation is made up
9. | Quote: | Democracy is not useless and I didn’t say that in the first place |
| Quote: | Craig, I voted for a different leader in the last election, it was the only time I have voted because I thought to myself ‘Well I don’t really like Blair, the war is bad, and I smoke green’…., it was a pitiful attempt though, because I was backing who I wanted in power not what everyone else wants. |
| Quote: | what you were saying earlier was making me laugh. Things like, Voting is a good thing and could change the outcome of this, you can make a difference and all that. |
So you never said democracy is useless but you describe voting as pitiful....and voting is a corner stone of democracy? And then you say its laughable to think voting is a good thing? What the f*ck is your stance on this? Contradict yourself, why don't you!
10...finally there is nowhere in that link that suggests the yanks have been touching up 'young iraqi girls' as you stated
| Quote: | with seeing US troops touching up young Iraqi girls |
What the report says is
| Quote: | The soldiers claimed the women were prostitutes, or denied any knowledge of any one in their unit having sex while deployed in Iraq. The statements went largely unchallenged. "I know the women were Iraqi. I however don't know if they were raped, or were prostitutes, or just wanted sex," one soldier told investigators. |
So touting the idea that the soldiers were indulging in peadophelia is another fabrication...Your choice of words is specific, implying of youing age yet that report only staes women. I'm in no way condoning it but pointing out how innaccurate you are.
so altogether your postings have been largely based on assumptions and falsehoods which means your point is kinda invalid as no one really knows what your trying to say as your arguments have been wrong 
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Mister James
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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| Posted: 21:03 - 17 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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You've probably just got something far more interesting to do than me |
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| innominate |
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innominate
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Mister James
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killa
Won't Shut Up
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| Posted: 11:13 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| craigie b wrote: | The list of inaccuracies stemming from you making up facts or making assumptions (this is how bored I am at work today |
| Quote: | A well to do SAS man sells his story to the media |
| craigie b wrote: | Mr Griffin did not ask for or receive any payment for this interview. |
But I apologised for thinking that Craig, as I hadn’t read the article I didn’t know he didn’t get paid, I just thought he was yet another grunt who left the army for the easy life, I doubt in a debate about something like this you’d ever apologise for something you’ve said.
To which I expect the reply “I would apologise but I’m right and your wrong”
| craigie b wrote: | Being 'well to do' is another assumption. |
He’s not poor, I doubt now he’s middle class either. Being well to do isn’t a bad thing though is it?
| Quote: | Someone who has gone through a selection process does not know the realities of war Craig, as Mr Ben found out. |
Again you misunderstood this before, I explained and you still can’t see what I was trying to say.
Before he served ANYWHERE he had to go through training, which says to me he hadn’t experienced war in Iraq fighting along side Americans. Get it? 
It isn’t the realities then, more like the actions of allied forces.
| Quote: | I am beginning to think your finding this hard to believe that scum like this SAS guy |
| craigie b wrote: | Now he's scum? |
In the eyes of the people at the top I’m guessing he’s just looked on as number, like I said, he might cause a bit of a stir for some troops involved but killing and abusing people there isn’t going to stop.
| Quote: | I thought the bombers turned out not to be Muslim? |
| craigie b wrote: | Assumptions again.... |
That was a question, hence the question mark, and you answered it, so job done.
Please Craig, this post is sad, almost all of your posts and Mr James are just put downs, I don’t like your view on this and you and Mr James don’t like mine just deal with it, don’t avoid questions because you feel you can’t be wrong.
| Quote: | He’s only seen a small amount of what they are capable of, enough to make him quit it seems. |
| craigie b wrote: | Unsubstanciated and an assumption |
He can’t be in two places at once, all I’m saying is that it is possible he hasn’t seen the full extent of what the Americans are capable of, surely that’s a valid point. I don’t know why you just answer with a couple of words, I’m betting I could say “There’s war going on in Iraq” you’d probably say “Again wild assumptions”
| Quote: | At first it was simply a question asking Craig how soldier Ben is going to affect this war, the question is avoided. |
| craigie b wrote: | Dig a bit deeper and you would see that the SAS man quitting is already having legal repercussions on the military system as it is being used in court to support other soldiers who refuse to fight an illegal war. This could set a precedent which would have a knock on effect a long way of in the future. |
Eventually we will pull out of Iraq due to the decisions of the people who organise this charade, no doubt what ever the reasons for it you’d say “Ha told you so, Griffin made a difference”.
He is making a difference for sure, I was arguing your point as I found it a little far fetched.
Isn’t it true that well over half the public even before this bloke quit, are against the war? Mr James’s comment saying it could sway more people to be against it is rather vague. How many do we need exactly to appose the war, 95%?
| Quote: | Democracy is not useless and I didn’t say that in the first place |
| Quote: | Craig, I voted for a different leader in the last election, it was the only time I have voted because I thought to myself ‘Well I don’t really like Blair, the war is bad, and I smoke green’…., it was a pitiful attempt though, because I was backing who I wanted in power not what everyone else wants. |
| craigie b wrote: | So you never said democracy is useless but you describe voting as pitiful....and voting is a corner stone of democracy? And then you say its laughable to think voting is a good thing? What the f*ck is your stance on this? Contradict yourself, why don't you! |
Not contradicting, its called not kidding myself, I think it was the green party or something I voted for, TBH I know little about the large scale of things they were in favour of but some of it I liked the sound of, all I was saying was that I knew they would never get in which is a bit of a shame. In all the years I’ve been here, significant changes do not happen over night, and even when they do people like you will be unhappy anyway.
| craigie b wrote: | So touting the idea that the soldiers were indulging in paedophilia is another fabrication...Your choice of words is specific, implying of young age yet that report only states women. I'm in no way condoning it but pointing out how innaccurate you are. |
It seems here in this Report there have been photo’s of the women being humiliated, what more do you need?
https://www.sundayherald.com/43796
https://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42088
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4718666.stm
If you want to be pedantic, Griffin hasn’t got any proof other than his own words and the words of a handful of others who no doubt just dislike the Americans.
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craigie b
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Posted: 12:18 - 20 Mar 2006  Post subject: |
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| Quote: | To which I expect the reply “I would apologise but I’m right and your wrong” |
This is nothing do with apologising but I'm trying to show how much you make assumptions and just blurt them out without knowong the full story.....
| Quote: |
He’s not poor, I doubt now he’s middle class either. Being well to do isn’t a bad thing though is it? |
What?
| Quote: | Before he served ANYWHERE he had to go through training, which says to me he hadn’t experienced war in Iraq fighting along side Americans. Get it? Rolling Eyes |
Aaaargh...see point two of my previous post....He's been through training and fought in wars (the americans served in both the balklands and afghanistan) beofre going to do SAS selection so what you are saying is simply untrue or at least unsubstanciated cos we at least know he was in two other conflicts with allied forces because allied forces fought in the same frigging countries Theres no misunderstanding the only thing I was trying to explain to you was that you'd assumed wrongly!
| Quote: | Please Craig, this post is sad, almost all of your posts and Mr James are just put downs, I don’t like your view on this and you and Mr James don’t like mine just deal with it, don’t avoid questions because you feel you can’t be wrong.
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It wasn't intended to be viewed as sad....what I'm pointing out is how you make up assumptions based on false/mistaken facts and how innacurate most of what you've written actually is.
| Quote: | He can’t be in two places at once, all I’m saying is that it is possible he hasn’t seen the full extent of what the Americans are capable of, surely that’s a valid point. I don’t know why you just answer with a couple of words, I’m betting I could say “There’s war going on in Iraq” you’d probably say “Again wild assumptions” |
It was answered with two words because you could neither supplied evidence to back up your claims (unsubstanciated) which means your just assuming 'he'd only seen a small amount'.
| Quote: | I’m betting I could say “There’s war going on in Iraq” you’d probably say “Again wild assumptions” |
assumption : something that you accept as true without question or proof
Why would I state such a thing when we're talking about the friggin war in Iraq? The documented, much debated and highly talked about friggin war that has been on going for 3 years today?
| Quote: | In the eyes of the people at the top I’m guessing he’s just looked on as number, like I said, he might cause a bit of a stir for some troops involved but killing and abusing people there isn’t going to stop. |
First of, his superiors describe him in glowing terms which negates your points. Secondly that wasn't what you said...you said he was scum (which unlike being 'well to do' is never a good thing).
Anyway If that was what you meant to say then why didn't you say it?
| Quote: | Eventually we will pull out of Iraq due to the decisions of the people who organise this charade, no doubt what ever the reasons for it you’d say “Ha told you so, Griffin made a difference”. |
The point of that post was to show that what you wrote was simply untrue. You said I hadn't gave you an answer...I provided youy with the exact quote which contained the answer you was asking for
| Quote: | Not contradicting, its called not kidding myself |
No actually, its incredibly contradicting....if you can't see that then we're in a bit of trouble cos we'll be going round in circles with this argument.
| Quote: | It seems here in this Report there have been photo’s of the women being humiliated, what more do you need? |
Its taken you 3 attempts to provide a link that backs up your claims that the yanks were touching up 'young girls' and even now your being inaccurate since the only mention is of one girl being forced to expose herself for the camera of an american soldier in Abu Ghraib which on its own is barely conclusive proof of widespread sexual abuse by yankee soldiers.
The other story details UN officials abusing children in the frigging congo which bears no reflection in Iraq at all.
| Quote: | Griffin hasn’t got any proof other than his own words |
And as I said he has a lot of credibility, due to his history and commitment, and that means his words have a lot of weight and would mean a lot in a court. |
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Mister James
I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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| Posted: 12:23 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| killa wrote: | I think it was the green party or something I voted for, |
You're kidding, right? You think it was the Greens?! You can't remember who you voted for? Guess you really took that little civic duty seriously.
Nice links. Did you actually read them, or is this yet another example of you franctically scrambling for 'proof' of your ramblings, and slapping up the first few websites you find on Google?
Not satisfied with posting a 'report' from a raving mad website that calls for a greater islamic caliphate over the entire muslim world, you then proceed to post 3 further websites, none of which even suggest they have evidence of British soldiers abusing minors, let alone actually publish such proof. All they have are the usual un-credited and vague accusations against the Yanks, over an incident that was dealt with some time ago.
Face it - you are talking utter tripe, as usual.
| Quote: |
If you want to be pedantic, Griffin hasn’t got any proof other than his own words and the words of a handful of others who no doubt just dislike the Americans.
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You really don't understand concepts such as 'proof' do you? You seem to use the word in every other sentence, and yet show an utter lack of comprehension.
What is your response to my most recent post, re. the SAS holding an internal debate on their Iraq operations, based solely on the testimony and actions of Tpr. Griffin?
Why is it that I am willing to give his words credence, despite being pro-american, pro-war, and have served in the armed forces?
I'm still waiting on an explanation as to which specific part of my original posts you found 'abusive'.
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Visitor Q
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Posted: 13:06 - 20 Mar 2006  Post subject: |
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I think you need to look up 'nullhypothesis' and apply it.
The burden of proof is stupidly hard to satisfy.
____________________
China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule... |
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killa
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| Posted: 13:09 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | There’s no misunderstanding the only thing I was trying to explain to you was that you'd assumed wrongly! |
No you’re still wrong, I said the training before the Balklands before he served anywhere.
Like I said the war in Iraq is different, the mind set of the troops obviously different, he hadn’t seen this sort of thing happen before. I’ve noticed that some of the American troops fu*king hate the Iraqi’s.
If you say I’m wrong you’re contradicting your first post.
| Quote: | It was answered with two words because you could neither supplied evidence to back up your claims (unsubstantiated) which means your just assuming 'he'd only seen a small amount'. |
Yeah, ‘a small amount’ of the American’s actions towards these innocents, they have treated these innocents quite severely it seems, I just assumed he hadn’t witnessed this before first hand, therefore he quit because of it.
You can’t keep saying I’m wrong about this when I’m agreeing with you
| Quote: | In the eyes of the people at the top I’m guessing he’s just looked on as number, like I said, he might cause a bit of a stir for some troops involved but killing and abusing people there isn’t going to stop. |
| Quote: | First of, his superiors describe him in glowing terms which negates your points. Secondly that wasn't what you said...you said he was scum (which unlike being 'well to do' is never a good thing). |
I’m glad his superiors are against the cruelty to these innocents otherwise there would be trouble, lol, although they wouldn’t call him a twat would they? We are straying off the original argument that even though this guy has served in a couple of wars he wont make much difference to the war itself.
| Quote: | Its taken you 3 attempts to provide a link that backs up your claims that the yanks were touching up 'young girls' and even now your being inaccurate since the only mention is of one girl being forced to expose herself for the camera of an American soldier in Abu Ghraib which on its own is barely conclusive proof of widespread sexual abuse by Yankee soldiers. |
And at this point I loose interest, merely because all this shite about me not being able to post and not be able to come up with evidence is bollox and you’re being as brief as you claim I am.
Killing, raping, torturing innocents IMO won’t stop in Iraq and I’m talking from both sides, do I think the leaders of some of the most powerful countries care?
Do I F***
Also what does it matter what they are doing to these people? Our original posts were about the fact you were saying to me you believed what Mr Griffin said, that you cared more than I did and that you could do something about it. Which is bollox.
Forget the technicalities of this war, I admit now I don’t know the full extent of the crimes committed by US troops, what we both know is, it happens, and this Griffin doesn’t like it.
You’ve told me he is a great soldier and has served wars and he is credible, I’m saying he is fu*k all and until we see the outcome of these supposed ‘debates’ neither one of us is right.
| Quote: | And as I said he has a lot of credibility, due to his history and commitment, and that means his words have a lot of weight and would mean a lot in a court. |
And in court who is going to be charge with war crimes then?
| Mister James wrote: | You're kidding, right? You think it was the Greens?! You can't remember who you voted for? Guess you really took that little civic duty seriously. |
As long as I have a hole in my ass, you, me, don’t matter James.
When was the last time you voted and after say 5 years thought “Yeah I got everything I wanted”
| Mister James wrote: | Not satisfied with posting a 'report' from a raving mad website that calls for a greater islamic caliphate over the entire muslim world. |
Well this is a good thing then, if they don’t actually abuse these women.
As I have said countless times in this thread, not all the US troops are evil torturers, which lead me to believe Griffin isn’t going to get the results Craig spoke of.
| Mister James wrote: | What is your response to my most recent post, re. the SAS holding an internal debate on their Iraq operations, based solely on the testimony and actions of Tpr. Griffin? |
There’s nothing much in your posts James, just quotes and digs at my punctuation.
So they are having an internal debate….….
What will come of it then James? All American troops sign a paper to say they won’t kill innocents, or maybe the few who beat them up are fired?
I don’t know, you tell me, because all you’ve done so far is quote from other sources that Griffin is a credible man.
| Mister James wrote: | I'm still waiting on an explanation as to which specific part of my original posts you found 'abusive'. |
You posted it.
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craigie b
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| Posted: 14:07 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I said the training before the Balklands before he served anywhere. |
Actually you said
| Quote: | Someone who has gone through a selection process does not know the realities of war Craig, as Mr Ben found out. |
| Quote: | No, I just thought that when you are going through the training/selection process, you don’t know what it’s like to be in real war. |
so in effect you didn't say that at all No mention of the Balklands and even so what relevance does Griffin being green about the realities of war 8 years ago have on this story? Or even what weight does him being naive 8 years ago give to your argument?
| Quote: | And at this point I loose interest, merely because all this shite about me not being able to post and not be able to come up with evidence is bollox and you’re being as brief as you claim I am. |
Well you quite clearly make innaccurate comments then wonder why people are pointing them out to you.....You post links which are irrelevant and make statements which are wrong, or worded so badly it takes three four attempts for you to get your point across.
| Quote: | Our original posts were about the fact you were saying to me you believed what Mr Griffin said, that you cared more than I did and that you could do something about it |
We have now left the atmosphere
Where the fuck did I say I could do anything about it? I said you can vote to make change and I said these forums are good to bounce ideas about and challenge ideas but I never said I could do anything about this.
| Quote: | Forget the technicalities of this war |
fitting since you never seemed to grasp them in the first place
| Quote: | You’ve told me he is a great soldier and has served wars and he is credible, I’m saying he is fu*k all |
And I think theres enough evidence to suggest he was a high caliber soldier, has served in wars and is credible. You presented nothing but disjointed ideas merely to concluded he's fuck all Well done, you truly are an enlightened individual 
| Quote: | Mister James wrote:
I'm still waiting on an explanation as to which specific part of my original posts you found 'abusive'.
You posted it. |
Now thats lame |
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killa
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| Posted: 14:52 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Craig, you manipulated my post to fit your words, that isn’t good posting.
| craigie b wrote: | so in effect you didn't say that at all No mention of the Balklands and even so what relevance does Griffin being green about the realities of war 8 years ago have on this story? Or even what weight does him being naive 8 years ago give to your argument? |
You really are thick as shite, I can’t be more obvious here.
You know when you apply for the army…you go through training….when in that training you don’t know what war is like.
DO YOU FUC**ING UNDERSTAND THAT FFS!
It hardly has any relevance now but I was just pointing out before that it must have been an eye opener for him in Iraq, fighting along side the yanks.
If you say “What about the Balklands?” in the next reply you really have to go back to school.
| craigie b wrote: | Where the fuck did I say I could do anything about it? I said you can vote to make change and I said these forums are good to bounce ideas about and challenge ideas but I never said I could do anything about this. |
In a round about way you were, you talked of ‘we’ the people making a difference. I’ve asked how and you can’t answer, other than sprouting shi* like ‘If we vote we can change things’ or something.
I asked before how much % of the British population disagreed with the war, I know it’s a high figure, just wondered how many more we need to make a difference.
| Quote: | You’ve told me he is a great soldier and has served wars and he is credible, I’m saying he is fu*k all |
| craigie b wrote: | And I think there’s enough evidence to suggest he was a high calibre soldier, has served in wars and is credible. You presented nothing but disjointed ideas merely to concluded he's fuck all. Well done, you truly are an enlightened individual. |
Uh yeah, and the whole point of me saying that is to try and prove to you this guy will be forgotten, he can only get so far.
A little justice maybe served but its all to little to late.
| craigie b wrote: | Now that’s lame |
I’ll ask you bluntly then so you can’t mess with my words.
What do you think will come of all this then?
I’ve expressed view on the outcome of this and you don’t like it, although you can’t come up with a reasonable result yourself.
Just saying to me the sun shines out of this guys arse doesn’t say to me he is going to change how this war is played out, there’s obviously more on the cards then saving a few Iraqi innocents, I gained this knowledge from the BBC.
You told me earlier that you wish to gain knowledge about the subject to make educated guesses in life, I have no idea what relevance the war has with your life but I was wondering anyway why you need to know. The more I know about this war the more I want to stay clear because at the end of the day Griffin is less than important to the people pulling the strings above his superiors.
What was I meant to say to James? Most of his posts to me are patronising.
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craigie b
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| Posted: 15:23 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Craig, you manipulated my post to fit your words, that isn’t good posting.2 |
No actually you'll find I'm merely popinting out what you've said...the fact you type one thing but mean something else is not my fault. The fact you can't see this is mind boggling
| Quote: | You know when you apply for the army…you go through training….when in that training you don’t know what war is like.
DO YOU FUC**ING UNDERSTAND THAT FFS!
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Actually you said
| Quote: | Someone who has gone through a selection process does not know the realities of war |
I can assure you there is a difference between a selection process and basic training.
| Quote: | It hardly has any relevance now |
It never did have any relevance at all. First you were talking about selection now you mean basic training, I'm not a mind reader.
But anyway to sum up what you meant in responce to my question:
| Quote: |
craigie b wrote:
SAS men know war is harsh...anyone who has endured the selection process and seen action (never mind being in the para's) is someone who knows about the realities of war. You’re neglecting this fact to backup a sorry lame ass opinion of 'I don't care'
Someone who has gone through a selection process does not know the realities of war Craig, as Mr Ben found out. |
So what that actually meant was "Someone who has done the absolutely basic training required by the army and has not done any selection process to get into either the paras or the sas does not know the realities of war, as Mr Ben found out"
Soooooooooo even when you correct yourself a zillion times I still get a retarded responce because your point makes no sense as Mr Ben had done basic training, pre parachute selection, tours in afghanistan, the balklands and then did SAS selection.
Now slap yourself on the wrist and continue licking the window....
| Quote: | In a round about way you were |
A roundabout way? Oh christ now theres a f*cking leap of fantasy. So I said something, which you can't find on the thread so now we're resorting to 'well you said it ina round about manner'
| Quote: | I know it’s a high figure |
Are we to trust you knowing that its a high figure, because so far everything else you've said has been wrong
| Quote: | just wondered how many more we need to make a difference. |
Its like listening to a spoild child who didn't get his way.....Waaargh i voted and things didn't go my way....Waaaaargh.
Nothing ever goes according to plan. Christ, it took years of public pressure for the yanks to come out of Vietnam. Iraq is no different.
| Quote: | What do you think will come of all this then? |
Its one more chink against UK's stance in Iraq. Another bit of bad media, this time which has infected the SAS, which is our best fighting regiment in the army.
As public pressure mounts up the UK will eventually remove it troops from Iraq. Similar to a death by a thousand cuts. I don't belief any one person is going to single handedly change the outcome of the future.....In these circumstances its a gradual build up of a lot of negative things happening that causes a country to U turn its position as it becomes clear that the situation is no longer attainable.
| Quote: | I have no idea what relevance the war has with your life |
Had I passed pre parachute selection (or in sixd months time if my back heals) then I might be off on an all exspenses paid trip to sunny Iraq. Hmmmmm, I don't know either why I might be interested in this topic or what effect it could have on my life
| Quote: | What was I meant to say to James? Most of his posts to me are patronising. |
And your tone isn't? |
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killa
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| Posted: 15:42 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Soooooooooo even when you correct yourself a zillion times I still get a retarded responce because your point makes no sense as Mr Ben had done basic training, pre parachute selection, tours in afghanistan, the balklands and then did SAS selection. |
Ok, I apologise for the misunderstanding, basic training won’t prepare you for war with the yanks then.
Still doesn’t make your point valid that this bloke is anything but a soldier who didn’t like the job.
And still you make an effort to avoid questions, I’m giving you a chance to enlighten me but all you do is quote and make snide comments.
We are getting down to the basic level of this debate, and you’re finding it hard to come up with reasons as to why this is anything but a waste of time.
| Quote: | A roundabout way? Oh christ now theres a f*cking leap of fantasy. So I said something, which you can't find on the thread so now we're resorting to 'well you said it ina round about manner' |
You should remember your own posts Craig, you said we live in a democracy and we should say our piece.
Now have a look back at what I said to that.
| Quote: | Are we to trust you knowing that it’s a high figure, because so far everything else you've said has been wrong. |
Ask someone who knows then, Mr James might.
I read in the paper it was over 65% who apposed the war, I was just pointing out that 95% probably still wouldn’t make a difference.
I’m not wrong about everything on here Craig, that’s a little harsh don’t you think as all these are opinions, just because you jump out of planes and have the goodness in you like Ronin Keatin doesn’t make you right either.
Some of the things you’ve spoke about in terms of changing the minds of our leaders are laughable.
| Quote: | Just wondered how many more we need to make a difference? |
| Quote: | It’s like listening to a spoiled child who didn't get his way.....Waaargh i voted and things didn't go my way |
EH? I was asking you a question.
I don’t care about my vote Craig I knew who was going to be elected but I decided not to go with everyone else, next time I’m voting for Labour because they’ve done one or two things for me that have gone down well IMO.
The things I’d love to have put right will never happen, when you understand that you’ll understand my posts.
| Quote: | What do you think will come of all this then? |
| Quote: | It’s one more chink against UK's stance in Iraq. Another bit of bad media, this time which has infected the SAS, which is our best fighting regiment in the army. |
Really?
Shi*, so its done more harm then good?
The media spreads pretty fast, which could mean more of our guys die due to hatred stirred by the Iraqis.
| Quote: | As public pressure mounts up the UK will eventually remove it troops from Iraq. Similar to a death by a thousand cuts. I don't belief any one person is going to single handedly change the outcome of the future.....In these circumstances its a gradual build up of a lot of negative things happening that causes a country to U turn its position as it becomes clear that the situation is no longer attainable. |
Yep, now you’re getting it, there’s a lot of killing to be done before anyone considers leaving Iraq.
| Quote: | Had I passed pre parachute selection (or in six months time if my back heals) then I might be off on an all expenses paid trip to sunny Iraq. Hmmmmm, I don't know either why I might be interested in this topic or what effect it could have on my life |
By learning about all this, it still doesn’t mean shi* to anyone, especially over there.
Are you going to express your views with the yanks?
| Quote: | Nothing ever goes according to plan. |
Good luck with the parachute then.
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craigie b
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| Posted: 16:28 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Ok, I apologise for the misunderstanding, basic training won’t prepare you for war with the yanks then. |
And on the one hundreth revision I still have no idea what your talking about.
| Quote: | And still you make an effort to avoid questions |
I've answered every question you've asked.
| Quote: | I’m giving you a chance to enlighten me |
And I've tried to teach you how to present an argument but your too thick or arrogant to acknowledge that most of what you've written is tripe.
| Quote: | We are getting down to the basic level of this debate |
We went way below basic many posts ago.
| Quote: | You should remember your own posts Craig, you said we live in a democracy and we should say our piece. |
A poor side step at being unable to back your own words up with evidence once again
| Quote: | I’m not wrong about everything on here Craig, that’s a little harsh don’t you think as all these are opinions, just because you jump out of planes and have the goodness in you like Ronin Keatin doesn’t make you right either. |
I'm sure your not wrong on many occassions, its just on this thread you decided to hi jack it by telling us we're stupid for thinking and discussing things, then you go onto back up your train of thought with random bits of jibberish which you yourself end up correcting a billion times before drawing fantastic conclusions from the tripe you talked about.
| Quote: | I don’t care about my vote |
so voting is pitiful then? Or is it important?m I can;t tell because your stand point changes so much
| Quote: | Really?
Shi*, so its done more harm then good?
The media spreads pretty fast, which could mean more of our guys die due to hatred stirred by the Iraqis.
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Thats quite possible.
| Quote: | Yep, now you’re getting it, there’s a lot of killing to be done before anyone considers leaving Iraq. |
Where exactly in my postings on this thread did you specifically read me saying the quicker we get out of Iraq the better? Or make any mention to the thought of us leaving? I did say I thought the war was wrong, but I never ever stated we need to withdraw.....I'm of the opinion that we need to rectify the mess we've made. So I 'got it' long ago:roll:
| Quote: | By learning about all this, it still doesn’t mean shi* to anyone, especially over there. |
Well you input is duly noted. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
| Quote: | Good luck with the parachute then. |
I feel patronised |
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craigie b
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| Posted: 16:32 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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BTW this now pointless thread is getting up to nearly 800 views.
Living the dream or what |
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killa
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| Posted: 17:13 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Not pointless at all, I’ve learnt once again that some people never change.
‘Not everything goes to plan’ pretty much sums all this up, that’s why I find it pointless pretending like Craig.
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| Posted: 13:31 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| craigie b wrote: | Some you win, some you lose. If you don't share your opinions with other then the majority attitude will never change. |
Ok, just to clear up a few things.
I replied to your post with my opinion which you did not like, in a thread that all of 4-5 people found interesting.
My opinion as valid as yours, so much of this war is pish and the snippets we see always seem to be about the US troops doing mental things, but this doesn’t change my view that small fry like Griffin, no matter what the rank, on the whole scale of this war means very little.
Internally it will cause a stir no doubt and I hope that some of the cowboys are sorted out, at the top of the scale you have the war criminals Bush, Suddam, Blair etc, we all know they know each others business and most of it we know little about. Any twat knows the war will end at some point, my point is that it will take a little more to pull all the troops out of Iraq because some random innocents get capped.
I was going back through the thread and didn’t see any sort of conclusion to this matter from your end, you have merely pointed out to me things that we already know, in the papers, on the net etc. If you believe that this man is going to make a difference to the war, and that’s your opinion, I think I have every right to say it wont.
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| Posted: 13:50 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Here we go again
| Quote: | I replied to your post with my opinion which you did not like |
I don't think thats entirely fair to say that....you replied to the post with poorly constructed arguments, based on lazy and sometimes wrong assumptions.
Becuase you took so many posts to explain exactly what it was you were trying to say and had based your opinions on falsehoods I think I'm being incredibly reasonable to say your opinion was a load of shite and I'm sure others would concur.
The fact you've came back to this is laughable because it seems like a last ditch attempt to save some face.
| Quote: | My opinion as valid as yours |
| Quote: | valid
adjective
1 based on truth or reason; able to be accepted
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https://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=87683&dict=CALD
You are entitled to an opinion, yes, but to call it valid is stretching this a wee bit thin. And thats not a snipe....90% of your points had to be re-explained several times before you made any sense at all and even then they were dubious at best
| Quote: | I was going back through the thread and didn’t see any sort of conclusion to this matter from your end |
| Quote: | Its one more chink against UK's stance in Iraq. Another bit of bad media, this time which has infected the SAS, which is our best fighting regiment in the army.
As public pressure mounts up the UK will eventually remove it troops from Iraq. Similar to a death by a thousand cuts. I don't belief any one person is going to single handedly change the outcome of the future.....In these circumstances its a gradual build up of a lot of negative things happening that causes a country to U turn its position as it becomes clear that the situation is no longer attainable. |
Is that not a conclusion?
| Quote: | If you believe that this man is going to make a difference to the war, and that’s your opinion, I think I have every right to say it wont. |
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. You are also entitled to believe the moon is made out of blue cheese, that santa claus exists and elvis is still alive. That is the joys of the free world. [/quote] |
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killa
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| Posted: 14:06 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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That post was made to try and sort out the confusion in the thread Craig, you don’t have to try and be funny every time and be a complete cun* about it. Do you?
Everything in that last post is my opinion on the outcome of this little man trying to make a stand, there is nothing you can say I made up as it is ‘possible’ it could happen.
Another chink in the armour you say, a possible step to troops pulling out?
How is this any less made up than my view on the outcome, you have thought to yourself ‘what if’ and come up with a conclusion, which I am not totally agreeing with TBH.
Neither situation has happened yet, so unless you can see through time it is only an idea.
From what I’ve seen in the past these leaders with more power than you can comprehend do not stop for a few innocents killed, their needs are worth far more than your life and I can accept that.
Well say something really hideous happens in Iraq, and there’s pretty much no reason for staying out there because people are now getting royally fuc*ed. I’m not sure what but something far worse than a few innocents being beaten up, we pull out of Iraq, can I expect you to say ‘yeah, told you so’ or do you think that what you have predicted i should be taking as gospel?
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