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Old Sod |
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Old Sod Two Stroke Sniffer
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:24 - 29 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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I read their letters and their email circular, and it's a good start albeit a second start. They're speaking, yes, but by this method they're preaching to the choir or just filling Khan's waste paper basket.
In an ideal world, they entered their discussions with Khan and TfL in November last year with lawyers, so that 1) a good case could be presented, and 2) things could be kept moving. Even though that probably didn't happen, there is some strategic thinking necessary here, and lawyers should advise. The real risk is that without them, the technical data and all the arguments are ready, but the understanding of the bureaucratic and legal framework for the process of correcting this policy is not, and that as a result, this letter will also be ignored. This second letter says, to paraphrase, "you ignored us and we feel we're being blocked from discussions", but this suggests it's for the benefit of us to read it, and not for them (TfL) who already know that they ignored the first one and blocked MAG from discussions.
On the positive side, this letter shows that they were able to request scientific data from various relevant agencies, understand what it meant (important, as it's all highly technical) and point out clearly and concisely where it's been misunderstood and misapplied. It also names specific organisations and agencies that have come on board and accepted the evidence and data, and states that TfL is the exception. This is absolutely clear and well worth mentioning.
On the negative side, there is no mention of any follow-up, and it isn't made clear that some old bikes are easily passing the test or receiving certificates of conformity left, right and centre, so those types of vehicle should be group-exempt. For example, an FJR rider on here said his friend (who also has an FJR) passed the special emissions test. Surely all FJRs of that model should therefore be exempted, because they have the same engine. Therefore if he fails to pay his congestion charge and they take him to court, his friend's certificate could be admitted as evidence that TfL has no basis to charge his vehicle.
It could be that TfL is waiting for a test case and will now blank everything. I don't know, but that's why it's necessary to have lawyers who work in this field and know the ropes. |
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Old Sod |
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Old Sod Two Stroke Sniffer
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Old Sod |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:10 - 01 May 2019 Post subject: |
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To be honest, I am cynical about things where money is involved.
The graph provided by that FJR bloke seems to be a relevant point.
This is what I suspect may have happened:
1) FJR man's friend is in an FJR club with FJR man, and so he's a biker-biker sort of biker, if that makes sense. Probably a really nice and friendly and helpful chap but more agreeable and trusting than most people, who do not belong to any club at all, or even belong to MAG.
2) FJR man's friend proudly shares his dyno cert with FJR man, telling him something like "the tester is a proper fellow biker just like us, he's on the old nudge-nudge-wink-wink, and he wants to help us get our bikes through mate!"
3) The bike garage operating the testing centre is fully aware of this large motorcycle forum, and sees the discussion of the ULEZ test here. He doesn't say anything but notes the printed graph posted by FJR man, and thinks... "shit, it's not supposed to be a run to 140km/h, what was that monkey doing thrashing that guy's FJR while I was on my lunch break!"
4) Bike garage thinks of a damage limitation plan.
5) I call bike garage to get more info which MAG couldn't be bothered to find out.
6) The guy on the phone has been briefed with the damage limitation plan, mistakes running a garage for running a govt department, and tells me, yeah we always run the bike to 130km/h in our emissions test. But this is just spinning a line (a lie) to cover up some bloke arsing about with a stranger's bike (FJR man said his friend absented himself during the test).
You're right about scooters (the majority of two-wheelers). Also, there is a speed limit in this country, and so there is NO justification for testing up to 130km/h in any circumstances. |
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yen_powell World Chat Champion
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Old Sod |
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yen_powell World Chat Champion
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BusterGonads |
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BusterGonads Trackday Trickster
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Old Sod |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:33 - 03 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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To be fair, everyone knows exactly where Khan stands. He's the guy who calls Trump a fascist while allowing militant Islamist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah to march through London. He's against everything, and he's in a strong position to subvert as much as he can in the short time he's in office. He wants to tear down the western world - we get it. He isn't that bright, and so he sees things in simple, zero-sum terms. More of my type of voter, less of yours, sort of thing. This is where he should have been countered. Did anyone even think to try a protest rideout where Muslims and Brazilians (who form the majority of riders in London) show that they are bikers too, even though they were foreigners and/or his coreligionists? No. Certainly not MAG, either.
No, Khan isn't to blame for being Khan. There is no mystery behind that guy. Someone here described him as a 5th column - there's more than an element of truth in that. No, the people I blame for this fiasco are MAG people. Why? Because they've been really busy doing all sorts of things except for the stuff described on their website. Mostly partying and BBQs and bike shows and bad rock cover bands. The same old people turn up year after year to MAG events, which resemble a sort of wannabe club scene now more than actual motorcyclists.
This is a MAG event:
Rich commuter on BMW GS you see every day on the roads? Nowhere to be found.
Middle-of-the-road commuter on mid-size parallel twin you see every day on the roads? No, not there either.
Poor commuter on scooter you see every day on the roads? Nope, not in attendance.
Delivery rider/pizza boy on L-plates you see every day on the roads? Nope.
Harley hardly ridden since it took the old hen to the same event last year? Yep, it's wobbled its terrified rider here again.
Triumph or Ducati or whatever mid-lifer who doesn't ride much? Yep.
People who generally didn't make the cut for MC life? Yes, they're all there. Could regard such people negatively (lifelong wannabes, military Walts, alcoholics, people with issues) or positively (motorcycle enthusiasts, free thinkers, libertarians, bon viveurs) - the whos or whys don't matter, but they aren't ordinary people you meet every day in the street.
Bad rock cover bands? Yes.
"Motorcycle-related stuff": patches, army camouflage stuff, vests, keyrings, bad-taste man-jewelry? All for sale.
Motorcycle related stuff: helmets, safety gear, boots, gloves? Nope, sorry, not for sale here.
etc.
Here's what MAG does:
Write a letter or 2 a year? Yes. That's rider's rights advocacy sorted, then.
Hold 30-odd BBQs a year? Of course!
Raise funds by flipping stickers and burgers? Sure. Half-heartedly the same old guys doing the same thing as last year. They don't even know why they still come, or why they started coming. They don't even enjoy it - it's just what they do now.
Hold protest rideouts where the same old group of 10 to 20 pals meet up and get out of the house (can only be a good thing, right?)
Write periodic vague assurances to members that it has the ear of someone important and "stuff" is going on behind the scenes.
Here's what MAG doesn't do:
Tell its membership who to write to, to complain about xyz.
Suggest which council meetings to attend and express an opinion about proposed road and traffic changes at a local level.
Do things like attend schools and colleges, and promote cycle safety (and by extension imprinting the kids with motorcycle awareness).
Distribute any kind of action plan to its members.
Follow-up on any letters it's written to TfL or other councils.
etc.
I'm not saying don't join MAG or support MAG. What MAG actually does is right up some people's street. I'm saying that if someone is paying subscriptions to MAG, they should definitely get involved with MAG and see what they're about, because if they're just sending these people money based on what they read in a flyer or on a website, then it's going to be a trade descriptions issue.
We desperately need an organisation that does what the MAG website says it does. Khan is not a bright guy or unstoppable by any means. It just needs an organisation that is genuinely interested in motorcycle advocacy and not in other things. |
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Old Sod |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:32 - 03 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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The question I wonder about when I look at MAG and all this Motorhead cover/tribute band stuff, leather cowboy hats and vests festooned with patches is, why, when Sadiq Khan pulled his first U-turn and declared his war on bikes after having (at first) wooed MAG, didn't MAG get right up there with TV interviews and rideouts with the likes of these (London) bikers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y06x0bIxXPk
Playing him at his own politically correct game, and putting these guys out there in the media would have been how to swing it. These riders themselves have their own bag of media tricks and savvy. The camera loves them. The leftist media would have lapped them up and put them on morning breakfast or as filler, anywhere. They fit the profile the Guardianista and Sadiq Khan voter loves to see. It was easy for me to think of this idea in 2 minutes, so why didn't MAG?
The only answer I am able to draw when I ask myself this is that they're not in the slightest bit interested in ULEZ and all the rest. They couldn't care less about all that. If you went to a MAG bar and ordered a pint, would you really get 568ml, if you catch my drift... They're in bed with some strange and often misunderstood bedfellows but regular people don't mix with them, and that seems to be the way they like it. Everyone has to get their slice of a pie among that lot? Not sure... But there does seem to be a nexus of organisations like it, including a certain one, registered as a charity, that reports annual accounts in the region of £15K while holding biannual raffles in which they apparently give away 2 brand new £20K Indian motorcycles, and the winners all seem to be surname-less burly chaps in leather vests and their spouses, just like themselves (the people who run the charity). Of course, I doubt that anyone is actually getting a free Indian motorcyle (if a charity gets 2 free bikes worth 20K each, then surely it would make sense to sell them both, even for 19K each, and treble their annual income), but membership dues and raffle ticket sales on the other hand sure go somewhere. Defrauding people at, say, a fiver a shot is likely to catch less limelight than defrauding, say, a bank for a million quid. Plus you've then got your trustworthy burly chaps to come up with the proofs and paperwork you need, should anyone come along with questions. Clever, or at least it would be if people didn't get caught (and they do). That's most likely the deal with a red herring called MAG as well. |
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Old Sod |
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Old Sod Two Stroke Sniffer
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Posted: 08:35 - 13 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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I have eventually received a reply from TfL, though unsurprisingly it does nothing to answer my questions, merely apologises for the delayed response - and letting me know my original communication from the 16th April 2019 had been passed to their Road User Charging team who deal with Congestion Charge and ULEZ enquiries.
Clearly that went in the bin. But I will persevere.
MAG has issued another press release which states they are disappointed with the Mayor's, and TfL's response, though in it, Lembit Opik states [my emphasis] : -
‘If TfL and the Mayor think this issue will simply go away, they are very much mistaken. We hope that Client Earth and others are following this case with interest. If they are not, they should be. Sadiq and his team are actively attacking proposals and policies that would accelerate the reduction of NO2 on the streets of London. This simply does not fit with the claim that he is leading the way on reducing emissions in the shortest time possible. The only thing his “hard hitting” policy is hitting, is the pockets of the very Londoners he claims to work for. He is letting NO2 off the hook.’
"Letting NO2 off the hook"?? Anyone cooking with gas, or heating with gas distributes NOx into their rooms and from their vents to a level far in excess of road traffic - let alone a few bikes. I smell a PC Rat.
Client Earth is a bunch of 'lawyers' bent on 'saving the planet'. The only thing I see them being interested in is commending Khan's policies.
https://www.clientearth.org/what-we-do/
I'm all for stopping pollution, but this Green Deal business is simply a con., a bandwagon to jump onto resulting in the furtherment of impoverishment - and under the umbrella of being a "charity". Guaranteed to raise my hackles.
£20k Indians? Last raffle I entered was for a nearly new MZ RT125, a bike donated after the death of a member from the MZ Riders Club. Don't generally do raffles. The VMCC did. They went in the bin, and no longer a member. Real Classic sometimes send some - bin.
MAG? I'm disappointed. But nor do I see a bunch of Muslim bikers making any inroads to Khan and his like. He's a useless tin-pot career politician, grabbing at anything to further his cause - make a mark, and make some money.
I watched that You Tube video done outside the Ace, and I'm not impressed with anyone who interjects his sentences with Mashallah, no more than I would be of any Christian doing the same with 'praise God'. They want to have a faith - that's fine, I just don't want it chucked in my face in everyday speech. It's totally unnecessary.
Which in the long run leaves us where? Screwed. You can research and discover evidence that shows certain government policies are not worth the paper they are written on, but attempting to present and fight same requires a court action, and there's only one winner there - the legal profession, and government has them in their pockets. Does that leave us as Outlaws?
Probably. As government will use our taxes to get their way - every time. Who's the real outlaw?
I stood up and lobbied against the NERCA 2006 Act being enacted along with hundreds of other individuals and several big organisations. Where did it get us? Nowhere. Banned.
There are no loopholes - only nooses.
Someone, maybe Leonard Cohen, wrote a line - "Hell is in Hello . . "
Got that right. |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:18 - 13 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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You're absolutely, 100% right.
Just focussing on the road ahead, some positive moves, etc. Thinking about how to fix this situation internally and externally.. The position MAG is in right now is that the arguments have been won, the logic has been shown and proved, but the rational outcome (withdrawing ULEZ for bikes) has been refused by TfL.
Assuming that all the facts and data are in place, and this is just an assumption, as I note that they (MAG) haven't yet published TfL's 8-page response to their 2nd letter, the reasonable, logical step now would be legal action. For sure, it would be a win for a lawyer somewhere, but there is no reason to believe, given the facts and history as presented by MAG, that legal action would be either prohibitively expensive or that it would fail.
First hurdle would be to decide which route to take. Either or both of the following:
1) An application for permission to apply for judicial review of the decision to extend ULEZ to motorcycles, on the basis that the decision was wholly irrational and opposite to logic and reason on the basis of clearly demonstrable scientific evidence and facts.
2) An application to the High Court for an injunction to prevent ULEZ's application to motorcycles, either temporarily pending such time as the application for permission to apply for JR has been decided, or otherwise.
One or the other of these would be a move in the direction MAG is supposed to take to secure the rights for motorcyclists. I'm not up to date, but I don't think either option should cost more than a couple of thousand.
The advantagesof legal preactions of this sort are, they get the ball rolling and the ball is then in TfL's court. Because of judicial oversight, it would force them to actually address the points they have so far ignored (or acknowledged and said, we don't care) in a reasoned and structured manner. It would also make it a really serious priority for them to decide if they really want to defend this through the courts, as it will cost them a lot in resources, and will return this issue to the forefront of media currency.
I would also, separately, advocate for the wholesale reform of MAG.
I suspect they will say that even 3 grand or so is deemed too much money to invest in lawyers. But then I would have to ask, what actually makes MAG any more useful than either you or myself writing letters to TfL? Anyone can write a letter. Does MAG really need 20 or more people on its payroll if all it does is write the occasional letter? The way that organisation is run baffles me - I've reached the limit of my knowledge about it. All I know is that it needs to make a clean break with all its dead weight. I would suggest, as stage 1, have a sort of MAG Alumni or MAG Veteranos group separate from MAG itself - let them organise their parties (but call them "reunions" now) and relive the heavy metal years or whatever. That branch should become a separate and self-funded organisation in its own right. It's a harmless hobby and that's all they want, so why not. But let the actual MAG be completely separate from trying to be an MCC or MC. No parties or events, just everything focussed on MAG's stated mission. Write letters, attend council meetings, inform members and tell them when and where to turn up and who to influence, to secure riders' rights. This is what the main body of MAG's membership expects. |
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Old Sod |
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Old Sod Two Stroke Sniffer
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SirFallalot |
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SirFallalot Trackday Trickster
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Posted: 10:10 - 14 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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I got this when I asked about my 93' CB400
Quote: | Thank you for contacting Honda (UK).
We have looked into your request for a Certificate of Conformity and can confirm that we have been unable to print your request due to one of the following reasons, the motorcycle is too old, is an off road bike, or it has been imported.
Whilst we are unable to provide a COC for your vehicle you can apply for a Year of Manufacturer. Should we be able to provide you with a Year of Manufacture, this should be sufficient enough to register your bike with the local Authority in the Country you require. We would always suggest speaking to the local Authority to understand their requirements.
To apply for a Year of Manufacture we require the full VIN, your name and address. A Year of Manufacture letter should assist you with obtaining an age related registration from the relevant Authority however. it cannot be used as proof of ownership.
There is a charge for this service of £30.00. We accept payment by bank transfer and cheque or postal order in UK sterling made out to Honda (UK) and then posted to the following address:
Honda (UK) Customer Operations
Year of Manufacture
Cain Road
Bracknell
RG12 1HL
Should you wish to provide payment via bank transfer please let us know and we can provide further details.
We may require up to 2-6 weeks to obtain the information.
Please feel free to email me at the following address: certificateofconformity@honda-eu.com if I can help further with your request.
Once again, thank you for contacting Honda (UK).
Kind regards,
Beverley Collins
Customer Relations
Honda (UK)
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Old Sod |
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Old Sod Two Stroke Sniffer
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Old Sod |
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Old Sod Two Stroke Sniffer
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Posted: 07:31 - 15 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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Read MAG's latest press release here:
https://www.mag-uk.org/en/newsdetail/a7410
Note the passages from TfL:
“We cannot therefore meet your request that motorcycles be exempt from ULEZ charges.”
& “I trust this answers all of your queries and I look forward to working with you to prepare motorcyclists for the expansion of the ULEZ in October 2021”.
Working with you??? Extracting the urine more like.
It is said that motorcyclists make up 1% of all road traffic. MAG states their membership makes up 1% of all motorcyclists. So what chance do riders have of combatting this extra tax in a small part of London? TfL know this, we are an insignificant nuisance. Period. But with 4,000 riders at £12.50 a day - yeah they'll have that - kerching!
Where will the next ULEZ appear, because it will be coming, and not just to major towns - villages too. Residents and local councillors will be all too ready to want to breathe cleaner air, but will also be totally ignorant of the facts and consequences. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:26 - 15 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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I'm all for "saving the planet" but TFL's attitude only makes sense if you go for ideology over facts ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 349 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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