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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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DaddyStu |
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DaddyStu Spanner Monkey
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:06 - 20 Jan 2024 Post subject: |
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Unless you control all the input materials, it makes little to no sense to produce something that anyone can these days.
Sure, it still makes a strategic sense to be able to produce steel (*weapons and transportation), but people are no longer willing to accept the higher cost of domestic production and the associated pollution. They just want to pull all the pollution outside the environment. * https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM?si=n6hd4U7wyAs3YpnN&t=87
I mean, I live in a region built on coal mining and steel production. Some of the best quality coal (coking coal) on the planet, still a plenty of it in the ground, yet the coal mining business is on the way out because it makes no economic sense these days. It is far more affordable for the local steel industry to buy coal from Australia and Canada. Sure, we are all mates now, and they will supply us with coal as long as we pay them, but what happens when the shipment gets interrupted? As for electric forges, DaddyStu is right, you can't produce high quality steel without coal. Even if you could, the energy industry in Europe is a crooked place. I mean, Czech republic is one of the biggest electricity exporter, 5th on the planet or so, yet the electricity on the domestic market is one of the most expensive, incl. the electricity for the busineses who that bankrupt left and right these days.
TL; DR: It does make sense to be able to produce steel. You can't explain the added cost and pollution to the public. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
Last edited by RhynoCZ on 12:34 - 20 Jan 2024; edited 1 time in total |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:40 - 20 Jan 2024 Post subject: |
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It's no better for the planet overall if steel is produced locally rather than abroad. Maybe local is better as pollution will be kept to a minimum?
If you're worried about security - that the country making the steel will fuck you over - there is the option of stockpiling. AFAIK a warehouse full of steel has less environmental impact than a furnace ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:19 - 20 Jan 2024 Post subject: |
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RhynoCZ wrote: | Unless you control all the input materials, it makes little to no sense to produce something that anyone can these days.
Sure, it still makes a strategic sense to be able to produce steel (*weapons and transportation), but people are no longer willing to accept the higher cost of domestic production and the associated pollution. They just want to pull all the pollution outside the environment. * https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM?si=n6hd4U7wyAs3YpnN&t=87
I mean, I live in a region built on coal mining and steel production. Some of the best quality coal (coking coal) on the planet, still a plenty of it in the ground, yet the coal mining business is on the way out because it makes no economic sense these days. It is far more affordable for the local steel industry to buy coal from Australia and Canada. Sure, we are all mates now, and they will supply us with coal as long as we pay them, but what happens when the shipment gets interrupted? As for electric forges, DaddyStu is right, you can't produce high quality steel without coal. Even if you could, the energy industry in Europe is a crooked place. I mean, Czech republic is one of the biggest electricity exporter, 5th on the planet or so, yet the electricity on the domestic market is one of the most expensive, incl. the electricity for the busineses who that bankrupt left and right these days.
TL; DR: It does make sense to be able to produce steel. You can't explain the added cost and pollution to the public. |
Basic steel making is almost 95% chemistry with 5% other stuff.
Strategic industries need protection.
Wars are expensive but more or less unwinnable if one cannot manufacture vital raw materials.
Putin and Hamas will show us all that.
Economic frustration has never won a battle.
Physics, Chemistry and Biology for Victory. ____________________ Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 19:22 - 23 Jan 2024 Post subject: |
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I do agree, that some people stockpile stuff all the time. I also do agree that military must stockpile stuff all the time... we even keep emergency reserves of oil, IIRC in the EU the member states shall keep at least 90 days worth reserve.
So, if you make it mandatory, that 1% of the GDP or even more goes towards emergency steel reserve, then sure. I do agree, that strategic industries should be protected, but how would you explain that to the taxpayers, when many of them still believe in importing everything is the way forward. Especially in the UK, the British ''heat or eat'' videos fill even my YouTube. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:11 - 24 Jan 2024 Post subject: |
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Nobby the Bastard wrote: | Meh, there's plenty of quality steel in scapa flow if we suddenly find we can't get any on the open market. |
Not that much. A few thousand tons.
About a six weeks production at ravenscraig steel work before thatcher and her motley crew pulled the plug out.
"At a cost of £22.5 million Ravenscraig took three years to build. Spanning one square mile, the site consisted of coke ovens, a by-products plant, one blast furnace and an open hearth melting shop with three steel-making furnaces. The coke ovens were lit on 3 June, 1957, the blast furnace on 1 August (after some preliminary heating), followed by the melting shop on 3 September of the same year. Production of an estimated 400,000 tons of steel per year had begun.
Future expansions to the works would also include the fabrication of a semi-continuous Strip Mill completed in 1962.
At its peak, Ravenscraig employed around 7,000 workers and was one of the largest steelworks in Western Europe.:
I worked in and around site as a boy. It was as big as a NASA site. They were the cheapest super quality steel in Europe.
Dirty industry was why it was closed.
We built a loading Dock to bring material in from abroad. Coking coal, iron ore, iron pellets, dolomite and other vital components for steel making.
It was part of the UK strategic industry. But we were all comfy when the ruskies were calm after perestroika.
I think we dropped the ball around that time.
Creating the worlds largest empire and winning 2 world wars counts for nothing. ____________________ Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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